This week’s Coffee Story chat features the wonderful Clare Seal, who runs the previously anonymous Instagram @MyFrugalYear - a platform focusing on honest conversations around financial wellbeing, which she originally launched with a refreshingly honest post of her £25k debt in spreadsheet form.

Clare had decided to share her own financial journey with maximum (anonymous) transparency, quickly setting her aside from the traditional finance-accounts or self-help books. It allowed people from all walks and backgrounds to follow along and perhaps recognise (and feel less alone in) some of their own patterns. It felt approachable, authentic and transparent.

Last summer Clare decided to unveil her identity, and has since released a book called ‘Real Life Money’ and launched The Financial Well-Being Forum. She also writes a column titled ‘Money Matters’ for Glamour UK.

I originally followed her after seeing that first square shared by a friend, while dealing with my own financial anxieties during my first maternity leave. As such, I was curious to hear her thoughts around savings and maternity leave in particular, and the impact of navigating debt/savings while raising children.

Do check out her work, and please enjoy her interview below!

What was going through your mind when you posted that first screenshot of your debt?

To be honest, I’m not even sure! I sometimes think it was a bit of a moment of madness, and I obviously had no idea of what would happen next. I thought I might meet a few like-minded people who would help me to stay accountable, and I used it as a sort of journal in those early days, notes to myself more than anything.

You also chose to drop your anonymity before having reached £0 on the balance sheet, which I personally thought was a powerful choice. Was this more of a personal choice, or were you aware it might provide a reminder for everyone that there is no instant magic switch?

It was a combination of both, really. I was always acutely aware of the fact that I wasn’t going to be able to stay anonymous indefinitely, and that I would want to use my own face and voice to talk about things. But I also wondered what message I would be sending if I waited to be debt-free before I ‘unveiled’ my identity. I try to help people to understand that there’s no need to be ashamed if money is a struggle, and I felt that staying anonymous would really damage that message in the long term. Now I like to say the numbers loud with my own face and voice, in the hope that someone watching or listening might think, “well, she’s not ashamed, so maybe I don’t have to be.”

There is still a lot of stigma around talking openly about money – what would you like to see more of in terms of how we talk about money, especially around our kids in order for them to have a more open and honest relationship to finances?

Just honesty, I guess. It’s hard, because money is both personal and political, and the societal shame and judgement is so deeply ingrained that it will take a lot of work to undo it. There will always be people for whom money is simply a case of in vs. out, who refuse to acknowledge that there’s anything more to it than that. But I’d really like to see us talk about it in context, and with emotional intelligence.

Let’s talk motherhood and money…

Am I right in thinking you have two babies now?

Yes! Although they’re not quite babies, one is six and the other is two and a half.

How did you approach maternity leave, from a financial standpoint (or did that even cross your mind as such at the time)?

The first time, I was completely clueless. We had far less debt, but were also earning far less back then, but I really didn’t understand what a financial strain it would put on us. I struggled to keep up with the slightly older mums in my NCT group in terms of what they could afford, and as a young mum (25), I felt I needed to buy him everything to prove I was just as capable.

The second time, our finances were already so messy that I was really just muddling from one day to the next.

How important do you think it is for new moms to have access to some guilt-free spending – whether that be a fancier chocolate bar or a take away coffee or something more, and what was your own relationship with this concept during maternity leave?

I think it’s really important, not just for new mums but for all mums, really. I think we’re conditioned to think that it’s in our child’s best interest for all of our spare cash to go on them, but actually keeping some back is important, too.

It is also important to distinguish that guilt-free doesn’t have to mean a big amount. Maternity leave can be a very vulnerable time, both emotionally, physically and financially. We often find ourselves relying on a partner’s income or specific savings to survive and might feel intense guilt around spending any of that money on ourselves (as opposed to bills, items for baby/family/others). What are your thoughts around this and would you have any advice on approaching this?

Yes, and this is the issue with how low statutory maternity pay is in this country. There is also a narrative among some people that having a baby is just the woman’s ‘problem’ that she chose to have a baby, so why should she moan about not being able to afford things for herself. But it shouldn’t be an issue just for women – it’s an issue for families, which often include men! For a lot of women, going from being financially independent to relying on a partner for money is a really difficult adjustment to make – it creates a power imbalance in the relationship and creates unhelpful tensions sometimes, too.

Mom groups tend to involve a precarious mixture of complete raw honesty and carefully structured facades, depending on the person and the topic. Could parents in general, but moms specifically, benefit for more honest conversations around money already during the pregnancy stage?

I think so. It would be really helpful if organisations like NCT and NHS antenatal classes included information and support on this.

From a financial standpoint (including the impact on your mental health), what (if any) are the things you wish you had been more prepared for during your first maternity leave?

Mainly the cost of childcare and returning to work afterwards. If you’re a lower earner, childcare eats up such a huge amount of your income, and is often payable in advance, so it can be really difficult to manage.

On the topic of extortionate childcare costs and the impact on going back to work. What are your thoughts around this, and how did you approach that cost?

It’s a real issue. For so many people, having a child is what completely throws them off course financially. I remember with my eldest son, I had no idea payment would be expected in advance, and had to ask our nursery to accept a later payment. They were lovely about it, but I was mortified to have to ask.

What sort of conversations and support do you think we need to see more of in the current climate, as it pertains specifically to families with younger kids (or in particular those on maternity leave)?

I think the main takeout from a lot of research into the effect of covid on families and their finances, is that it has been, and will be, predominantly women who are being affected.

Women having to leave jobs due to childcare difficulties, or struggling to manage both family commitments and work in a way that could lead to them being vulnerable to redundancy or passed over from promotions. It really is a disaster for families, and individually for women, too.

Of course, in some families with children, both parents are women, in which case this trend could be utterly devastating. There’s so much more to say on this, but I’d urge people to follow @pregnant_then_screwed on Instagram to arm themselves with knowledge, and to get support if they’ve been affected.

Anything you would want to add for any new or soon-to-be moms reading this, and feeling the anxieties rise around money talk?

I would say that parenthood is one of the most disorientating things you can go through – in relation to everything, really, but particularly with money. Everyone with children is affected by it, but it’s also good to remember that some people have more help than others. Try not to compare yourself to friends who might have parents on-hand for free childcare, or who can afford to take a longer maternity leave. I’d also say that, although baby groups are nice, some of the more expensive ones are definitely no better for your baby’s development than just taking them to socialise with other babies and engaging with them yourself.

Q U I C K F I R E

How do you take your coffee?

I absolutely love coffee Vietnamese-style – a long black coffee with a spoonful of condensed milk. Not for every day though! Mostly I just have a filter coffee with milk.

Best purchase you ever made?

We just bought a new sofa. We saved up really hard, had a voucher for Christmas and waited for a 20% off offer, so we could buy a really good quality one to replace our Ikea model. It’s like sitting on heaven.

Top three tips for finding the strength to start honest conversations around finances?

Remember, chances are that other people are worrying about money or debt, too. The number of people who have opened up to me the second I mentioned money is amazing.

Try to remember that you’re not defined by what you earn, what you own, or what you owe.

Remember that some people just don’t and won’t understand your viewpoint on money – and that’s fine.

Best buy or investment you ever made just for YOU?

I bought some Girlfriend Collective leggings just after Christmas and I live in them. Knowing they’re ethically made and size-inclusive makes me happy, and they are that rare combination of comfortable and good-looking.

Chocolate, cake or sweets on a Saturday?

Probably chocolate. I’m a reformed sugar addict though, so I have to be careful – I try to stick to dark chocolate.

If you won the lottery tomorrow, would you tell anyone?

Probably! I’m not very good at keeping secrets.

Coffee Stories: My Frugal Year

Q U I C K F I R E